Hook up heat exchanger hot water tank
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The pressure relief valve on this hot water heater is located three quarters of the way up the tank. This heat exchanger is 45 inches long and it actually extends past the pressure relief valve. Plumbing into the relief valve would cause an arch in the plumbing, creating a heat trap and possibly interfering with the thermosiphon. If you plumb into the hot water inlet DO NOT extend the heat exchanger any higher than inches above the hot water heater.
Try to stay as level as possible to the top of the tank.
Anything higher than inches will disrupt the thermosiphon and the heat exchanger may not work. I find the heat exchanger works best when the wood furnace water is set to degrees. Anything less seems to hinder the thermosiphon. After the heat transfer takes place, the water temperature in the hot water tank will be very hot To prevent severe scalding, install a mixer valve.
A mixer valve will mix cold water into the hot water going to your faucets, reducing the temperature. You can see the mixer valve in this picture about inches above the tank. Newer hot water heaters have an anti syphon valve installed in the top of the hot water exit.
It is a blue plastic valve that needs to be ripped out using a pair of needle nose pliers. If you do not remove the anti syphon valve the thermosiphon process will not work. If the sidearm heat exchanger is plumbed into the pressure relief valve, the blue anti syphon valve does not need to be removed. Use as few angles and turns as possible when plumbing in the heat exchanger. Keeping the heat exchanger between the top and bottom of the water heater and using a limited number of turns will assist the thermosiphon process.
I turn my water heater completely off when I have my wood furnace running. So NJ, you are correct in saying you should stay close to the top of the tank. I am having this same exact problem as the OP describes. My install looks exactly like this though: Find all posts by creeker.
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Your boiler water should enter the side inlet at the bottom of your sidearm and exit the sidearm through the side outlet at the top of the sidearm. The sidearm works by the hot water from the boiler actually "pulling" the cooler water from your HWH up the sidearm as it is heated. When I installed a sidearm on a HWH in my addition, I accidentally hooked the incoming boiler tube to the top of my sidearm and the next day, I had luke warm water in the HWH.
Realized what I had done and switched the incoming boiler tube to the bottom side fitting on the sidearm and bingo, hot water. Creeker, you may want to look at this example posted on Central Boilers website at the link below. I will check to verify this evening, but I am nearly certain I hooked mine up exactly as this picture depicts Like you said, with the elements off on the HWH the water will get luke warm. The local heat master dealer told me if did not matter which side of the side arm the boiler water came in to.
If you do have it hooked up with the boiler hot entering the bottom and then exiting the top, one other scenario I had with my system was not hot enough water exiting my plate exchanger, before entering the HWH. I have two HWH that are heated by my boiler. On the first HWH, it is only about 30 feet from my manifold. The cold domestic water goes through a plate exchanger before it enters the HWH, which gives me endless hot water. On this specific HWH, you could not hold on to the domestic cold water leaving the plate exchanger because it was so hot. On the other hand, after I got my HWH hooked up to the boiler system in the same exact configuration as the original, I could easily hold on to the domestic cold water line exiting the plate exchanger because it was only luke warm.
The boiler line entering the plate exchanger was very hot and no way you could hang on to it. However, the boiler line exiting the plate exchanger was also luke warm. This HWH has about feet of Thermopex tube between the manifold and the plate exchanger. My Central Boiler dealer told me the Taco pump I was using was more than adequate to pump enough water through the plate exchanger at this distance.
After all kinds of screwing around, I finally bought another Taco pump and put it in the line just before this plate exchanger. Immediately, I could turn on all the hot faucets which were fed by that HWH and you could never hold on to the line for the domestic cold water leaving the plate exchanger and entering the HWH. As of now, my system is flawless. Just a lot of dinking around and trouble shooting.
Heating Domestic Hot Water Using An Outdoor Furnace
Also, I have gotten some very good information from my dealer which was invaluable while I was installing it, but, keep in mind, every scenario is different and they may also give you some bad information. Moral of the story. If your setup has this HWH a sizable distance from your source, you may not be pushing enough water through your sidearm to actually cause the convection to take place.
Also, make sure you bleed any air out of the line between the top of your sidearm and where it enters the HWH because a bubble can also stop the convection. Creeker, I don't like the way that the top of the HX is teed into the cold supply. It will never work due to the internal 'dip tube' on the cold WH inlet. Is the HX short enough that you can pipe the top of it into the pressure relief port? That would improve function I'm sure.
This is how all the MFGs recommend it to be installed. The ditch needs to be below your local frost line. Any cold water added to the warm water coming out of the sidearm is a bad deal. Butch OH , Sep 12, Is there any chance there is a obstruction in the sidearm?
If it's not short enough, then consider re-piping the HX outlet into the HOT side, although there could be possible issues with this as well NJ Trooper, great to be back on here with you. I always enjoy reading your input! I agree with you totally on the cold water "T". I thought that could really disrupt the circulation as well. Any cold water added to the warm water coming out of the sidearm is a bad deal.
Your hot water heater will stay off all winter while you enjoy a virtually For a sidearm heat exchanger, the hot line from boiler must first go to the top side port. For the fastest recovery, install a small circulation pump on the domestic side that. So the most common way to install them is to mount them off the side of the domestic hot water tank. Let's further see how.
Creeker, running that HX back into the cold supply won't work It's no wonder at all once this is realized that it can't work. That dip tube will KILL your thermosiphon! So never mind my previous post about repiping the cold supply You need to find a way to dump the HX outlet into the TOP of the water heater, NOT the bottom as you are trying to do by feeding the water all the way to the bottom down through the dip tube. Enjoying your input too Wayno!
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Good to see ya! Excellent point NJ Trooper. The water leaving the sidearm has no where to go. Though this is a crappy picture you can see my pressure relief valve is above the "T" where my sidearm tube "dumps" into the top of the HWH. Creeker, this type of configuration should be your goal. Sorry Creeker, link to the picture is broken but it can be viewed farther down the page. Wayno, I edited my previous post 17 and you might want to think about that too NJ Trooper, you are spot on.
Since the water in the tank is already cooler due to the inefficient operation of the Sidearm, the water on the bottom of the tank being drawn in when a faucet is turned on is definitely going to be way to cool. Also, thanks for fixing the link for me! There is no way this can work properly being "T'ed" to the cold water inlet line. That needs to change no matter what. I'm shocked there are even installation instructions from a manufacturer showing an install like this. Unfortunately, reworking the installation is the only fix to this situation.
Okay, I am trying to keep up here The sidearm is not short enough to connect directly into the pressure release valve on the top of the tank. If I am understanding correctly, I need to re-route the incoming boiler line to the bottom and outgoing to the top and somehow get the sidearm outlet on the top piped into the top of the tank through the pressure release valve and get away from the cold water T completely?
Yes, basically that is what you need to do. Your relief valve is on the TOP of your heater and not on the side as shown in the diagram you posted? I looked at that manufacturer website and I can't understand what they are thinking with those recommendations for connections. Correct mine is actually on the top of my hot water heater. So I do away with the "T" entirely?
You need to come up with a method where you can reinstall the relief valve. This is usually done with a TEE fitting where the relief valve is fitted. The relief valve is removed, and a pipe nipple and tee is installed such that the HX can be piped into the side of the tee and the relief valve replaced on top of the tee fitting. Over thinking it a bit I was. Questions on sidearm installation. Hey folks I'm new here,just finished reading through this thread , am impressed with the quality of discussion on the matter of sidearm water heaters.
I have an outdoor coal fired furnace, been using it for about 10 years and recently becoming less and less satisfied with my water heating setup which has been a sidearm on a NG hot water tank. My HWT is about 15 years old,thinking maybe it needs replaced so I got a replacement for it and was surfing the net to see if there were any tips on sidearms that would make my system work better when I go to replace the HWT. Then I found this thread.
What is crazy is I found that my sidearm is hooked up backwards, in that I have my boiler water coming in the bottom and out the top of the sidearm straight through ,but my DHW is attached to the SIDE inlet and outlet of the sidearm. I had no instructions when I installed this thing years ago,just assumptions.
Mind you it HAS worked ok,but not great. Never needed a mixing valve cuz the water was never too hot,hot water volume often inadequate. My sidearm is 46" tall, the drain and pressure relief valve side mounted are 38" apart. Should I loop the outlet all the way down to the PR valve fitting which is somewhere near the top of the tank or would I be better off teeing it into the hot line coming out of the top of the HWT?
It would definitely more than inches above the tank if I looped it down to the PR valve, but it appears to me there are issues with it teed into the hot as well,in that when you open the faucet you get cold incoming water from the bottom of the tank. About the plate heater I saw in photos here wayno12 If it is mounted in series before the cold water in,does it disrupt the siphoning action of cold from the bottom drawn up to the top, OR does it just make the system more efficient because there is no cold water going into the HWT?
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Would the water be hot in the HWT without the sidearm ,just using the plate heater?